• What is the 'myth of origin' for the 'Saga of Logatroth' game?



• Briefly describe the cosmology of the game.



• What is this game all about?



• How can I download this game?



• How do the rules of the Saga of Logatroth compare with AD&D: 2nd Edition (D&D and AD&D © Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of the Hasbro corporation)?
  
     Short Answer   Long Answer
  
  
• Why didn't you compare your game with AD&D: 3rd Edition?



• Do you hate AD&D or something?



• Isn't your game nothing more than another "Hack-and-Slash" RPG?



• How does the Saga of Logatroth compare with Runequest (Runequest © Avalon Hill, Inc.)?



• In AD&D, I like to play Paladins. Does your game have a 'paladin like' character class?



• In page length, is your game shorter or longer that Runebearer (a.k.a. Bostonia)?



• What's the gameboard like?



• Why is the rulebook comb bound?



• Why haven't I ever heard of this game?

What is the 'myth of origin' for the Saga of Logatroth?

In the beginning, there were Yarg and Zarg, creators of matter and life. They brought the Cosmos into existence and all life within it. After a careful debate, Yarg and Zarg decided to have children to help nurture and guide what they had created. Zarg gave birth to four male (Tarik, Pyre Hiti, Mandragora, and Vargon) and five female children (Orthicon, Kriton, Deaciden, Narr, and Logatroth). After they came of age, they were each given particular duties, while their parents were in charge of controlling Creation, Death, and Destruction.

After time, Logatroth grew bored with the responsibility Order. She felt that she was old enough for more exciting responsibilities. When Logatroth informed Yarg and Zarg of her wishes, they pointed out that she lacked the wisdom and understanding to control greater power, and thus they refused. Logatroth tried to convince her other siblings to plead her case to their parents, but they sided against her, which enraged her even more. With contempt towards her entire family, Logatroth decided she would take charge of her life. She stole the Jards containing Creation, Death, and Destruction and retreated into the Nether world. In her haste, Logatroth broke the Jard holding Death. This allowed Death to open up her wings and escape. Reaching the Nether world, Logatroth promised freedom to those contained in the Jards, if they each granted her a wish. Wanting freedom more than anything else, Creation and Destruction agreed. Logatroth's first wish was for Destruction to destroy her parents. Her second wish was for Creation to create Chaos, a necessary tool to combat Order, the Order that Yarg and Zarg had loved so much. All she wished for was granted, and she shattered the remaining Jards, setting Creation and Destruction free. Gaining strength from those she liberated in the Hells of the Nether world, Logatroth ascended, with her new followers, to her Divine kingdom. She waits there to see what her siblings will do.

After the confusion and grief had passed, caused by the destruction of Yarg and Zarg, the remaining children decided to apprehend Logatroth. They hoped that they could force her to divulge the location of Jard lids (located somewhere in the Material world). These would be necessary to build new Jards. With new Jards, they could capture and control Creation, Death, Destruction, and the new force, Chaos. This would return universal Order and force Logatroth back into her place.

Briefly describe the cosmology of the game.

The universe in the Saga of Logatroth is divided into three planes of existence: the Divine, the Material, and the Nether worlds. The Divine world is the dwelling place for all the gods and their kingdoms. Each kingdom is where the faithfully departed partake in the unrestricted and inexhaustible joys of the physical and spiritual senses. The inhabitants of the Divine world may visit the Material world and usually do. The Material world is where the Players' characters interact with other characters and their environment. As the game goes, it is the proving grounds for the faithful. The Nether world is a place of punishment for all those who fail to enter the Divine world. Its purpose is to cleanse the souls before they are returned to the Material world. This cleansing process is based on the necessity for divine justice.

What is this game all about?

Presently, Logatroth is at war with her divine siblings and they in turn are working to gain enough power to bring her to justice, without destroying the universe. In order for either side to accomplish their tasks they need Social Cognitive Beings (SCBs) to pledge their allegiance, ENG, and RES, to their cause. In other words, the faithful give their particular god strength and power to achieve the god's goals. In turn, the god gives divine justice and compensation along with direct assistance to their followers to persevere the divine conflict. This relationship of reciprocity causes the following to occur: (1) Deaciden, Kriton, Mandragora, Narr, Orthicon, Pyre Hiti, Tarik, and Vargon give aid to their followers to combat Logatroth cultist and (2) Logatroth gives aid to her followers to wage war against the faithful of her divine siblings.

This role-playing board game (RPBG) takes place in the 'Material world,' the proving grounds for the faithful, in another galaxy, on a small plant called Cree-Zar. This planet's present ecological state is that of Earth's 9th century. The planet's inhabitants' current social, political, and technological state is similar to Scandinavia, before the introduction of Christianity, between 600 and 900 AD.

In its essence, the Saga of Logatroth RPBG is a series of campaigns, hosted by one Referee, where the Players' characters strive to achieve remarkable skills, in order to seek out and destroy the Bishop of Logatroth, the leader of Logatroth's community of believers. Once the Players have killed Logatroth's Bishop, it is time for a new Referee and a new Saga.

How can I download this game?
You can purchase your very own copy of the Saga of Logatroth rulebook by clicking the "Purchase" link at the top of this page.
The Saga of Logatroth is a REAL role-playing board game.
It is NOT a computer game.
In other words, the Saga of Logatroth is a non-Windows (Windows © Microsoft Corporation) compliant game.

How do the rules of the Saga of Logatroth compare with AD&D: 2nd Edition?

Short Answer...
In my opinion, the rules of the Saga of Logatroth are far superior to AD&D and all the versions that were produced before TSR was acquired by Wizards of the Coast. I base my opinion on the Saga of Logatroth's simplicity of play, the ease of orchestrating combat with large groups of Players (8 or more), its progressive character advancement, and the higher level of freedom that the game allows its individual Players.

How do the rules of the Saga of Logatroth compare with AD&D: 2nd Edition?

Long Answer...
In my opinion, the major differences between the Saga of Logatroth and AD&D: 2nd Edition can be summed up in the following subject headings: Game Board; Norse Historical Back-Drop; Simple Success Parameters for Combat; the absence of concepts like Dual-Classes, Multi-Classes, and Character Classes; the absence of the concept of Alignment; One Method of Rolling Up Characters; Gory Combat; No Hidden Dice Rolling; A Non-Career-Discriminating Magic System; Three Types of Magic: Spells, Basic Incantations, and Cult Incantations; Descriptive Skills; Fast Character Creation; and An Ending. Let me explain each subject headings in detail.

• Game Board - It states in the introduction of AD&D: 2nd edition, "Finally, let's put the board somewhere you can't see it. Let's give it to one of the players and make that player the referee. Instead of looking at the board, you listen to the referee as he describes what you can see from your position on the board. You tell the referee what you want to do and he moves your piece accordingly." ¹ In my 20+ years as a Referee in a dozen or more RPGs (I stopped when I started my doctorate), nothing, and I mean nothing, causes more disharmony than arguments over 'who is where' during the combat phase. Don't get me wrong! Using your imagination and intellect to further the social interaction between the Players outside of combat is great. However, placing the board "somewhere you can't see it" and relying on one individual's memory where every character and its relation to the rest of the characters and objects that are in 'play,' is a disaster waiting to happen. In my opinion, AD&D's concept of placing the board "somewhere you can't see it" is a major fault in the game's construction and hinders the Referee in having more than 8 Players. In contrast to AD&D, the Saga of Logatroth incorporates a game board to avoid all the pitfalls that come with concept of placing the game board "somewhere you can't see it." The board in the Saga of Logatroth is used exclusively for combat and is made up of 2" x 2" Blocks, each representing a 10' x 10' square. On the playing board a character fills a 1" x 1" Square, the perfect size for miniatures.
• Norse Historical Back-Drop - The art work in AD&D leads one to believe that the historical backdrop of AD&D: 2nd Edition is that of modern man's romantic notion of Christian Europe between the 12th and 16th centuries. In the Saga of Logatroth, the historical backdrop is that of Earth's 9th century. The game's inhabitants' current social, political, and technological state is similar to Scandinavia, before the introduction of Christianity, between 600 and 900 AD. In other words, the Saga of Logatroth contains no stirrups, lances, plate mail, jousting, castles, or helmets with horns (or wings for that matter).
• Simple Success Parameters for Combat - Keeping with the simplicity of AD&D's method of determining combat success,² the Saga of Logatroth has a simpler one involving a D100. In the Saga of Logatroth, to determine whether a character successfully hits their opponent, the Player rolls under or equal to their character's skill points for the weapon they are holding in their hand. Let us say a Player's character has a skill score of "67" with his Broad Axe. If the Player rolls under or equal to "67," the character successfully hits the opponent. It's just that simple. That's right, no "THAC0s" tables or, if you are playing with the optional rules, no "Weapon Type vs. Armor Modifiers" table.³ On the other hand, if the Player rolls above "67," the character fails to hit the opponent and has a possibility of Fumbling. This simple method of determining success or failure in attacking an opponent is also used for non-combat skills such as Apply Poison, Cartography, and Disguise.
• No "Dual-Class," "Multi-Class," or "Character Classes" - In AD&D you must 'pick' a "Character Class" or you cannot complete your character's creation.⁴ In the Saga of Logatroth, AD&D's concept of "Character Classes" does not exist. In other words, your character can acquire and improve any skill it wishes to learn in the Saga of Logatroth. In AD&D, "Multi-Class demihumans," in my opinion, are penalized because their "experience is divided equally between each class."⁵ Who would want to start a game with that kind of disadvantage? While the rest of the humans in the group are advancing nicely, Players playing "Multi-Class demihumans" are bringing up the rear, developmentally speaking. To further complicate matters, humans cannot be "Multi-Class" characters, only "demihumans." Does this sound fun to you?? According to AD&D, "A dual-class character is one who starts with a single class, advances to moderate level, and then changes to a second character class and starts over again. The character retains the benefits and abilities of the first class but never again earns experience for using them."⁵ Why?!? What's the logic behind that rule? I understand that RPGs are imagination oriented. However, a little reality helps ground the imagination and makes it more believable. In my opinion, rules that hindering a Player from making a 'career' change is ridiculous. To summarize, the Saga of Logatroth avoids all this silliness by excluding AD&D's concepts of "Dual-Class," "Multi-Class," or "Character Classes."
• No "Alignment" - In AD&D, you must 'pick' an "Alignment" or you cannot complete your character's creation. According to the authors of AD&D, "Although players characters can change alignment, it is not something that should be approached lightly, since there are serious consequences."⁶ Why can't it be taken lightly? In reality, people modify and even change their moral and ethical behavior almost on a weekly bases. Why can't a Player change their character's moral and ethical behavior in the middle of a campaign? Sure there are consequences but let us confine them to 'action' and not a philosophical 'outlook.' When I play a character in a RPG, I want my character's interact with its environment to generate a majority of its social-psychological make up. In other words, playing a character in a RPG should not be like generating material to hand into an English professor for a class assignment. In the Saga of Logatroth, there are no pre-set moral codes that dictate the actions of your character. In other words, your character's personality can be as consistent or inconsistent as you wish. If your character wishes to help a little old lady across the street, proceed to the local bar, start a bar-room brawl, and in the confusion, mug and kill the bar keeper, the Referee will not change your "Alignment". What will come into play is the consequences of your action. In addition to this, if your character is religious, these consequences may include interaction with the gods. Religious characters in the Saga of Logatroth must follow their religious morals and ethics when interacting with fellow believers or face correctional behavior modification by their god. On the other hand, if the character's aggressor is not of their religion or is an enemy of their religion, anything is fair game.
• One Method of Rolling Up Characters - Counter to AD&D's six methods of "Character Creation"⁷, the Saga of Logatroth has only one method: roll your race, characteristics, and the environment that your character grew up in (or, in other words, the life your character would have led had they NOT become an adventurer). After which, you equip your character. Using a single method of character creation allows the following: makes it easier for Players to memorize character creation rules, forces consistency and uniformity in the application of the rules, and makes the creation of a second character for another Referee's saga easier.
• Gory Combat - Unlike AD&D⁸, the Saga of Logatroth utilizes a "hit location system" which allows a violent and gory combat system that also includes parrying and fumbles. In other words, you can smash in, hack in half, cut off, or ventilate your opponent's head. In my opinion, AD&D's overall stance on combat is another major fault in the game. According to the authors of AD&D, AD&D "isn't a combat game." ⁹ If this were true, why did the authors of AD&D devote 47 pages (18 pages (pg.89-106) in the Player's Handbook and another 29 pages (pg.51-79) in the Dungeon Master's Guide) to combat? It seems very strange to me that a group of individuals would compile so many pages concerning combat and yet under emphasize the combat aspect of the game. Don't get me wrong, I love a good battle and even agree with the authors of AD&D that combat is "just one way for characters to deal with situations." ⁹ However, the authors of AD&D would have us believe that RPGs should stear away from "Hack-and-Slash" because "the game would quickly get boring." ⁹ I agree and disagree. I agree that if characters fought their way out of everything, it would get boring, especially using AD&D's system of combat. In my opinion, AD&D's system of combat is missing that element of 'fear' that is produced when you know, regardless of how great your character is, that your character can get killed. What's the thrill if you know that there is little or no chance that your character can get killed? Where I disagree with the authors of AD&D is how the combat system should function and be utilized. In my experience, combat is the most frequently used method for Players' characters to deal with conflict. Therefore, I believe that combat must be dealt with fast, efficiently, smoothly, and some what realistically so that the role-playing may continue. In other words, the Saga of Logatroth's solid combat systems allows entertaining role-playing interaction, which produces memorable RPG events.
• No Hidden Dice Rolling - Some of my Players and game testers have complained that they have experienced the horror of RPG Referees who hide behind a screen and roles their dice in secrete. However, I can't remember any references in the rules of AD&D that hiding behind a screen and rolling the Referee's dice in secret is part of AD&D (If you know of any, please email me.). In my opinion, rolling the Referee's dice in secret allows the Referee to cheat for or against the Players. There are two reasons this is a bad idea: (1) it rewards the bad behavior of a Referee who is an egomaniac, and (2) it can foster a hostile playing environment because of heated arguments between the Referee and the Players. In the Saga of Logatroth, the Referee must roll the dice for all to see. Most of the time, the Referee rolls right next to the Player they are attacking. This method of rolling in front of the Players fosters a friendly gaming environment, shows the Players that the Referee is not cheating on their rolls, and shows the Players that the Referee has nothing against them personally.
• A Non-Career-Discriminating Magic System - In other words, anyone can cast spells. In the Saga of Logatroth, Social Cognitive Beings (SCB for short) use their ENG to cast spells and their RES to resist spells being cast upon them. Therefore, any Player's character with money, or any Referee's SCB for that matter, can go to 'school' and learn how to cast spells. Bishops and Priests are willing to teach spells to anyone, providing they are not an enemy of their religion.
• Three Types of Magic: Spells, Basic Incantations, and Cult Incantations - Besides Spells, there are incantations. Basic incantations are divine abilities that every god has the ability to perform on behalf of their followers. In other words, Incantations are direct interaction with a god in favor of the character performing the invocation. Cult Incantations are unique to that particular god and are only cast in favor of characters belonging to that cult.
• Descriptive Skills - All of the skills have a description of 'what happens' if someone fails their attempt to perform the skill. For example, let us examine the Disguise skill. Disguise is a skill used to conceal one's identity or change one's appearance. The Player and Referee must agree on the cost and complexity of the disguise. Contrary to popular belief, a character can only make itself uglier than their present appearance. If you succeed, your character will temporarily decrease your BTY score by 2D3 points and a Search roll is needed to see through the disguise. If you fail, you just look foolish. The disguise will last an hour, after which the roll must be remade in order to maintain the disguise.
• Fast Character Creation -  Once a Player has thoroughly read chapter 2 (Character Creation - 9 pages) & chapter 3 (Combat - 23 pages), they will have the ability to create a character that is ready to play in a fairly short period of time. By the third time a Player has created a character, most Players can build a new character in less than 30 minutes.
• An Ending - According to the authors of AD&D, winning and losing "doesn't apply to role-playing because no one 'wins' in a role-playing game." ¹⁰ In the Saga of Logatroth, once the Bishop of Logatroth has been terminated, the game is over. The Players of those characters that survived the final battle with the Bishop of Logatroth are considered the winners of that particular saga. On the other hand, if all the Players use their characters foolishly and get themselves slaughtered in the final battle with the Bishop of Logatroth, the Referee is considered the winner of the saga. Once the winners have been declared, it is time to get a different person to play the Referee, roll up new characters, and start the saga all over again in a different tribal-state than the first time.

Why didn't you compare your game with AD&D: 3rd Edition?
I have four good reasons.

1. Why should I waste the money! I had experienced the "Dungeon and Dragons" basic box set, the Player's Guide, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual for D&D (1st edition) at the start of my teens. They were good games when I was a child. However, I found better RPGs and moved past D&D and AD&D. Years later, I bought the three main books for AD&D: 2nd edition, and was sadly disappointed. About 6 months or so later, I sold the three 2nd edition books for some lead miniatures. If I hadn't done that, the purchasing of the three 2nd edition books would have been a complete waste of money. I decided quite some time ago that I had wasted enough money on D&D and all of its derivatives.
2. After disregarding the fanatics, AD&D: 3rd Edition has received some mixed reviews and caused me to deem it not worth buying. To read some of these critical reviews, click on the title of the review. Once your browser has delivered you to the location of the review, scroll down to the title of the review you wish to read. They tried too hard by Kenny the Blade Master, A terrible re-hash of the Rules Cyclopedia by doylesan, New Management, Why is this game so popular!?, D&D on life support, Big Let down by RJ Pawlicki, Design Problem by Stephanie Cottrell Bryant, Such a disappointment, Too Much To Care, Full of ideas stolen from other systems (incl AD&D 1st&2nd)!, Its like a Mike Tyson challenger Overhyped, and Underpowered, Why Buy 3E?, What Might Have Been, Dont judge a book by its cover, Yikes! What a mess!, and Reviewer: oldschoolgamer.
3. I have read the official "Dungeons & Dragons: Conversion Manual," by Skip Williams, a simple booklet who's intention is to "help you preserve the best of your old D&D campaigns as you adopt the new rules." ¹¹
4. I already have a game that I enjoy, the Saga of Logatroth. However, if you would like to send me the books for AD&D: 3rd edition (roughly $50), I would be more than willing to read and critique them.

Do you hate AD&D or something?
Of course not. In my opinion, AD&D is a good game for beginners and children. The authors of the AD&D lead me to this conclusion. On the cover of the Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide for the 2nd edition, it even states "For intermediate through advanced Players, ages 10 and up". In contrast to AD&D, the Saga of Logatroth is not intended to be played by children under the age of 16.

Isn't your game nothing more than another "Hack-and-Slash"⁹ RPG?
Nothing could be further from the truth. With a sound and well-grounded combat system like the one found in the Saga of Logatroth, the Players and the Referee are liberated from the quagmire of creating "house" rules to fix the problems they see in AD&D's combat system and focus in on real role-playing.

How do the rules Saga of Logatroth compare with Runequest (Runequest © Avalon Hill, Inc.)?

The most significant difference between the rules of the two systems is the structure of combat in the Saga of Logatroth. Simular to Runequest, Saga of Logatroth has a VERY deadly combat system. In other words, even the most experienced character can get killed by a (very) lucky blow. The "Method of Combat," page 3-16 (That's 3 dash 6, meaning, chapter 3 - page 6), in the Saga of Logatroth is as follows…